Hello Everyone,

My two cents....

The questions seems to be: "Is Letterboxing a numbers
game?" I am very new at this wonderful hobby, and
admittedly, my partner and I have had our celebratory
successes as well as our incredible failures in terms
of not finding the box, landing the stamp. It seems
almost sophmoric that all letterboxers have had
similar experiences.

Those times when, for whatever reason, the box could
not be found, I still feel that we were richer for
having tried. For example, our first time out
together, we got soaked to the bone in a downpour.
Then the very next night,our search resulted in
disaster. I fell waist deep into a creek and my
partner lost a very expensive cell phone as darkness
and cooling temps were at hand. In retrospect, we were
proud that we gave it our best shot. Once dried out
and phone replaced, we resolved to return to find
those illusive boxes some time in the future. We now
laugh together over these two adventures, but we won't
give up.

No matter how it turns out, we always get some much
needed exercise. We get to marvel at the beauty of
nature in places we might never have discovered while
feeling grateful that someone took the time and made
the effort to create and place these letterboxes in
such interesting places. We thank you. One of the most
positive aspects is that we get to shift our focus
away, run away if you will, from our day-to-day work
lives for just a little while. We get to either
rejoice over what went right or reflect over what went
wrong, often over a nice post-letterboxing dinner out.


My partner and I have very little time to spend
letterboxing and, unfortunately must always compromise
on the sites we can go to. But, we have made a
decision that this is very important to us and me make
the time to go to the ones we can and we enjoy it no
matter how it turns out.

Could all allow ourselves to change our thinking that
the number of stamps in our books, as well as the ones
we didn't get, is not necessarily indicative of
getting "the numbers" but rather a journal and a
journey of sorts of how we hard we tried?

I sense from reading the various posts, people have
differing views of letterboxing just as we all have
differing amounts of time to devote to it. No matter,
it's an adventure, a journey, a mystery and it's fun
and there is plenty of room for all of us. I think we
all "get it" just fine in our own personal way.

Thanks for listening.

Ms. Alafair
--- Jess Terrance wrote:
> OK, so one minute Wanda says letterboxing isn't
> supposed to be competetive
> and the numbers really don't matter. Then the next
> minute she writes in
> just to say that she found her 1058th box. Who in
> the world has that much
> time on their hands?? Also she carries around a
> little list of boxes she's
> found. I've only found a few boxes so far, but she
> is always one of the few
> people who writes in their count. So make your
> mind!!! Isn't this just
> supposed to be a fun hobby? So why the big deal
> about numbers? I guess I
> haven't been around long enough to "get it"
>
> RIJester
>
>
>
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> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger:
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>
>


__________________________________________________
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I've only met a few letterboxers in person and only
met Wanda and Pete one time. I have no problem with
them posting their box count. I for one am interested
and wonder how others are doing. It doesn't add or
take away from my interest in the hobby. My first
impression of Wanda and Pete was that they are good
honest people and I for one do believe their box
count.
They do seem to have a lot of time for letterboxing
but if they do, good for them. I wish I could too.
They also seemed to still be having fun letterboxing.I
wish them the best of luck and do want to see their
box count from time to time as I would the other few
letterboxers I know. I have no desire to compete with
anyone and just want to do my thing my way and if
someone don't believe my box count someday, I really
don't care and Molly cares even less....Chuck & Molly

--- Jess Terrance wrote:
> OK, so one minute Wanda says letterboxing isn't
> supposed to be competetive
> and the numbers really don't matter. Then the next
> minute she writes in
> just to say that she found her 1058th box. Who in
> the world has that much
> time on their hands?? Also she carries around a
> little list of boxes she's
> found. I've only found a few boxes so far, but she
> is always one of the few
> people who writes in their count. So make your
> mind!!! Isn't this just
> supposed to be a fun hobby? So why the big deal
> about numbers? I guess I
> haven't been around long enough to "get it"
>
> RIJester
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger:
> http://messenger.msn.com
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
http://launch.yahoo.com

> It's not a competition, not in the broad sense,
> though I think a little personal rivalry--all in
> fun--is healthy to keep people playing this game.
> Who gets the first box in a particularly dazzling
> location, for example; that makes a great
> competition that serves all of us well.


Well, after being onboard here for only a bit and
being a relative newbie myself I can understand Jess'
point. No, it's not about competition but awhile back
I do remember a whole period of time where accusations
flew like fists about someone the poster had a
personal problem with. We never heard from the other
side (which I *Definitely* need to do before I make
any judgements on someone's character) but I do have
to say that airing this in a public forum is
definitely NOT needed, pretty immature and speaks of
the writer's character, as well.

I also remember an explanation that it wasn't
important to get to a box first but someone liked to
get to the box first in order to sort of set the stage
and write something nice--as if the person who might
have been there before them wouldn't have. I don't
like the connotation that leaves.

It *is* nice to be the first to get to a box
*sometimes*. I enjoy reading everyone's entries and
seeing everyone's stamps but sometimes, just once, it
is nice to get to a box that no one has been to- to
find that nice clean notebook to place your stamp. I
don't feel that's being competative it's just
sometimes nice and I don't need someone telling me to
write something nice there, either. I remember my
manners, usually. :o)

I do have a question, though, a legitimate one and
not based on what someone might call questioning
someone's ability to count or based on jealousy- I'm
not jealous of anyone's count, I do this as a HOBBY
and don't take myself so seriously...

How *DO* you count?

I see that sometimes one comes upon a hitchiker more
than once...does that count again even though you have
it already in your book? Does it count if you happen
to be out checking your own boxes and decide to move
it to another location? Does it count if you figure
out from people's posts where it is, go out to get it
and then move it? Does it count if someone gives it
to you to move for them?

How about the number of stamps in a box? I have
placed a box with two stamps in it that make one
image, I've come across a box with two different
stamps in it with two different stamp logs- do I count
mine as one (as I intended) and the other as two since
there are two log books and two stamps?

How about re-finding a box that went terribly missing
and you replanted it elsewhere, rewriting the clues
somewhat? Is that another plant? How far does the
box have to go to become another plant? ;o)

I can see how this whole thing is subjective! What
one may count in good concience might not be a count
to someone else...but where is the rule book??

I choose to keep my count only for myself, and frankly
I couldn't tell you what it is right now because
that's not what matters to me.

What matters to me is that this is really a lot of
fun! It's something I share with my bestest friend
and sometimes my family when they care to come along.
It's gotten me out of my house, it's gotten me to
places I would have never been before, it's gotten me
to think, every time I see an eraser or an image
"Would that make a good stamp?" and gotten me to think
every time I walk along a path that's dear to me,
"There would be a good place to put a box".

It's just fun and life is too short to count how many
we have when there are so many more places to see and
so many more hikes to take. Take the time to smell
the flowers by the path, not just tramp them down on
the way to your next find...

Just my opinion, your mileage will vary. :o)


__________________________________________________
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> How *DO* you count?

Some of how to count is in the faq which is on the lbna web
site. Since I wrote the faq, and it doesn't answer all the
questions here, I'll say how I would count in these examples.
Since it is all on the honor system, it doesn't matter, except
that I actually find the how to count interesting in and of
itself. (I enjoy trying to find simple structure of rule that
handles complex and unanticipated questions).

So, if Wanda posting her F count lead to something I found
interesting, it was worth it, wasn't it :-)

> I see that sometimes one comes upon a hitchiker more
> than once...does that count again even though you have
> it already in your book?

Count once -- its like finding the same static box more
than once. A box is a box is a box is my general principle.

> Does it count if you happen to be out checking your own
> boxes and decide to move it to another location?

No. I would only count an HH as planted if I were the
creator. Moving an HH should never count as a plant.
Boxes always have one P and many Fs (IMHO YMMV :-)). A
box is a box is a box.

> Does it count if you figure out from people's posts where
> it is, go out to get it and then move it?

Assuming you are referring to HHs still, count as an F, not
a P, tho people should not give away the location of boxes
other than their own in their posts, IMHO. Any box found
due to careless people giving it away still counts as an
F, and never move a box unless its instructions say it is
ok to move it.

> Does it count if someone gives it to you to move for
> them?

No.

> How about the number of stamps in a box? I have
> placed a box with two stamps in it that make one
> image,

This is in the FAQ. Count per box, not stamp.

> I've come across a box with two different
> stamps in it with two different stamp logs- do I count
> mine as one (as I intended) and the other as two since
> there are two log books and two stamps?

A box is three things. Clue, stamp, and place. Unless
all three are different, count as 1. All 3 must change for
a box to be considered changed, and thus to be countable
again.

> How about re-finding a box that went terribly missing
> and you replanted it elsewhere, rewriting the clues
> somewhat? Is that another plant? How far does the
> box have to go to become another plant? ;o)

Again, stamp, clues, and location must all change.
Changes can be trivial, just like I could, in about
an hour, create 1000 boxes in my basement. Again, its
all in the spirit and honor anyway.

> I can see how this whole thing is subjective! What
> one may count in good concience might not be a count
> to someone else...but where is the rule book??

I don't claim the faq and my opinions as the rulebook,
but I do claim they are neutral. Yes, there will always
be cases that come up that are not covered by the
"rulebook" ... :-)

And, yes, the FAQ could use an updating ...

FWIW, I think competing to be first can be cool. I
think competing on F and P can be cool. I think ignoring
this can be cool too. The woods are big enough and there
are enough diverse clues and enough ways to combine
words for everyone to do their own thing.

Cheers
Randy
Miss Manners